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EPISODE 10 – David Miles

Outsmarting Google’s Dirty Tricks With PPC Expert David Miles

Advertising on search engines can be a quick and effective way to get your business in front of the right people when they’re actively looking for a product or service you provide.

But with Google making it so easy for anyone to get started, unless you’re careful, you can quickly find you’ve hosed away all of your marketing budget on buying irrelevant clicks. 

In this episode, I’m joined by David Miles from The PPC Machine, who shares some of the many tactics he has employed to help thousands of small businesses grow online, and some of the pitfalls that Google make all too easy for the unsuspecting marketer to fall into.  

 

In this episode, we discuss:

  • Why the Google Partner Program can be detrimental to a consultant’s clients
  • Settings and suggestions to avoid in your Google Ads campaigns
  • How to get your ads to stand out from the crowd and increase your click through rate

 

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Episode Transcript
Episode transcript

📍 This week on Marketing Freed, I’m joined by David Miles from the PPC Machine.

David is a digital marketing consultant, trainer, speaker and author, who’s helped thousands of businesses market themselves effectively online. And in this episode, we discuss some of the dirty tricks that Google use to fleece their customers, along with tips to help you optimize your PPC spend. David, welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, David. Great to be here. Thanks for having me on. Not at all. Look, just for everyone’s benefit, who’s listening in, could you provide a bit of background to who you are, your, career, any highlights and how you got into, working as a digital marketing consultant?

Yeah. as you said, these days I’m a digital marketing consultant, but I didn’t, I didn’t leave school or university with the idea that’s what, I wanted to be. and I’m, I guess I’m known in some circles as the guy who accidentally bought half of an IFA firm of financial advisors.

because I started my, career. in, in the IT field, in sort of IT contracting and that kind of thing. then, I was offered the opportunity to buy into someone else’s business who was a financial advisor. And, so I, I took that, that golden opportunity because I was young and naive. And, one of the things I found when I, what I got there was that, there was an expectation that I knew lots about marketing and how to market businesses online.

This is early 2000s, was still, quite new in terms of mainstream adoption. And there was an assumption that because I, quote, worked with computers, I would know how to build websites, get traffic to them, all that kind of thing, and I knew nothing about that because that wasn’t the kind of, computers that I’d worked with.

I’d been doing big infrastructure projects and things. So I very quickly had to learn marketing, at the deep end, and in financial services. And that’s, since then there’s been a sort of a long journey, but it’s come full circle. But I now, within my role as a digital marketing consultant, I’ve worked mainly with mortgage brokers and financial advisors, helping them, avoid all the mistakes that I made 20 odd years ago.

Brilliant. Thank you. And, when you think about working now with mortgage advisors and financial consultants and the relationships you’ve got with your clients, as an independent expert, how is it that clients can best engage with people like you? I, think that any relationship with an external marketing, person, whether it’s a personal, or a bigger agency always works better if the client is involved in the process.

and that’s why with a lot of my clients, although I have some where I’m doing everything for them, the majority of clients I work with, I’m actually coaching and training them how to do their own marketing. So it’s more of a done with you kind of service, either, one to one or three sort of group coaching.

And that definitely works much better because then the clients are involved. They know what you’re, what’s actually being done. I think there’s always a problem when clients think they can just outsource everything to an external marketing provider because at the end of the day, they still need to, deal with the inquiries that come in as a result of that marketing.

They need to understand what makes their product or service different. Otherwise they’re going to be getting all these inquiries, but they’re not actually gonna be making the most of them if they don’t have the right sales process or the right follow up process or whatever. So yeah, I much prefer working with the kind of clients who Yeah, who become part of the process and want to be involved and want to know how this stuff works because I actually like I like training and teaching people how to be a bit more self sufficient with their marketing.

Yeah, it’s useful to get that softer feedback, from the client, direct from the client’s mouth. I think also it’s, beneficial, in fact hugely beneficial for the client to involve you when they’re thinking about things that they might be doing because you will have experience that they won’t and opinions and expertise that will be brand new and valuable to them.

just thinking about the clients you work with, can you talk about the benefits of working with a Provider like yourself who’s very specialized in a particular niche rather than a niche generalist or an industry generalist Yeah, the thing I hear a lot from clients that i’ve worked with, you know Particularly if they’ve tried working with a more generalist marketing agency beforehand Is they say that when they work with generous agencies, it’s quite difficult because those agencies don’t really understand The, the financial products and services that, that they’re trying to market.

they might understand that, there are mortgages out there, and that people need mortgages to buy houses or whatever, but, they won’t understand the nuances of the different types of mortgages, the different, won’t, they won’t know, I don’t know, the difference between a guarantor mortgage, or a let to buy mortgage, all that kind of thing.

and obviously because, although I was never actually an advisor myself, because I’ve worked in the industry and, had a team of, mortgage brokers and financial advisors working for me. Obviously, I do, I do have a good knowledge of the product range and everything. And I understand the kind of pain points that clients have when they need to buy those products or services.

And obviously, as you all know, within marketing, understanding the client’s pain points and proving you can, you have products or services that address them is a really important part of it. Are there any additional rules and regulations, given that it’s a financial product, that you need to adhere to when advertising with the likes of Google?

yes, there’s a couple of sides to that. There’s at a sort of higher level. there’s the rules that the FCA, the Financial Conduct Authority put in place. So there are, things that you can and can’t say within any kind of financial promotion. but. At a Google specific kind of level, Google brought in a thing about three years ago now where if you want to run ads For any kind of financial product or services so any Google Ads to do with mortgages, pensions, investments, insurance You have to basically show go through a verification process with Google And it’s a fairly straightforward process If you are actually a mortgage broker or financial advisor because as long as you’re on the FCA register The verification process is quite easy where I’ve seen people have problems with it Our people who are if you like on the fringes of financial services, so they don’t need to be on the FCA register But in their Google advertising, they’re targeting keywords of a financial nature.

So so for example There’s someone who contacted me a while ago who was doing something to do with buying gold that cash for gold kind of stuff didn’t need to be on the FCA register for that, but because he was using words around investment and gold and things like that in his advertising, Google wouldn’t let him run the ads.

So that’s, where people have problems, but you’re straightforward mortgage broker, financial advisor. If they’re on the FCA register, they’ve got to submit this online form, but it’s a fairly straightforward thing. Okay, thanks. That makes an awful lot of sense. and when we caught up before David, we were speaking about, various routes that this conversation might, might take.

And one of the things you mentioned that really chimed with me was, reasons why you might actually want to avoid becoming a Google partner. I’d like you to elaborate on that if you will. Yeah, sure. So for those who don’t know, Google have this partner program where, individuals or agencies can get, a Google partner badge to put on their website.

And, it, that program’s been around, for a while. I think it, that’s probably about as long as Google AdWords has been around. But, and I have had the Google partner status in the past. The reason I, don’t anymore, is because they changed the requirements of it. So it used to be that you had to take an exam, an online.

Multiple choice type exam and I think that was valid for about three years and then you have to redo it now the exam itself It’s, although it wasn’t necessarily advertised as such, it’s an open book exam. It’s questionable, isn’t it? Yeah, because, yeah, there’s nothing to stop you sitting there doing the exam online on, on one computer and having another laptop over there where you’re Googling the answers.

There’s even websites that are created specifically to provide you the responses, the multiple choice answers that are correct to all of these different accreditation exams. Yeah, so it’s that, calls into question really how meaningful they are. so it used to be you had to pass that exam every two or three years.

I think you also had to be managing a minimum level of client spend across all your different Google Ads accounts. But the thing that changed a few years ago was they brought in this extra requirement that to keep the Google partner, accreditation, you had to be running the Google Ads accounts of your clients in such a way that you met a minimum threshold.

of Google’s optimization score, which basically means that you have to be implementing a certain number of the recommendations, the automated recommendations that Google has popping up in your Google Ads account every so often. And the problem is that very often those recommendations will actually mean that the campaign makes more money for Google than it does for the client.

So that’s the sort of the final straw for me in terms of saying I’m not going to bother with this anymore because I want to be able to run My clients Google ads campaigns in the way that is 100 percent best for the client without having to think. Oh, yeah, but I’ve got to do this thing That’s not so good for the client in order to keep my Google partner badge Yeah, the way I describe it is that Google are very well optimized for making Google money and that’s where their priorities lie.

They’ve done a remarkable job of branding themselves as a nice, fluffy, organization that does no evil, et cetera. And evils may be a strong word, but they very much are a profit making machine. Absolutely. I’m always saying if the biggest problem with Google ads is Google make it very easy for anyone with zero knowledge to come along, set up, create a Google ads account and set up their first campaign.

But the problem is if they follow all the nice, simple default settings that Google suggests. It will almost certainly put a lot more money in Google’s pocket than it does in theirs. Yeah. What are some of the things that you’ve noticed or that Google perhaps recommend frequently that people should either avoid or at least question very stringently before applying?

so a couple that come up, a lot are pushing you down an automated bidding kind of route. in fact, it’s now, It’s now, when you first create a Google Ads campaign, it’s impossible to select manual bidding at the point when you create the campaign. You have to select an automated setting, and then you can go back in afterwards and change it to manual.

But for those who aren’t aware, basically the way Google Ads works, in simple terms, is each advertiser bids how much they’re willing to pay for each click. So, if there are, two people who are both, Plumbers in London, and they’re both bidding on the keyword London plumbers.

one might say they’re willing to spend up to 3 a click, another might say they’re willing to spend up to 4 a click. And your bid is one of the things that determines where you appear in the results and, in what order and how often you appear. Now, originally, the only bidding option was manual, so you were in control of your costs.

and a bit like when you bid something on eBay, if you said I’m willing to spend up to 5, you’d only actually be charged just enough to beat the next person in the auction. What Google have moved more and more towards in recent years is automated bidding, where it sounds good on the surface because you’re letting Google’s machine learning and AI and everything bid for you to get you the best results.

But it’s a conflict of interest, isn’t it? Because you wouldn’t go to a normal auction and just give the auctioneer your credit card and say bid on my behalf. But that’s effectively what you’re doing when you use automated bidding. And Very often as well, particularly with a brand new campaign, there’s not enough data for the machine learning to work with.

so if you start a brand new campaign, and say to Google, bid in a way that’s going to get me as many conversions, and as many leads or sales as possible, you’ve got no past data for it to work on, so it’s working blind. So not only have you handed your credit card to the opposition, if you like, but you’ve also given them zero, zero data to, to work with and, at that point as well, Google can only measure what Google can see and a lot of the conversion journey and a lot of the quality of the inquiries that you’re getting that happens offline.

so some intelligence I think always needs to be, applied. I’ve seen examples. One of my clients, I had a look at their Google Ads account and it genuinely was shocking the way things were running and it was all done on the advice of, I’ll put air quotes in there, a Google partner giving them advice and it wasn’t actually a Google partner, it wasn’t a Google employee, it was someone masquerading as an employee but they’re actually some kind of third party agency that’s Yeah.

Getting commission from Google for hitting certain targets. some of the things that were applied were just a blanket, broad match keyword approach. So they were bidding on keywords that had zero relevance to them. the, what else was there? The Google display network for their search, results.

So unbeknownst to them, pretty much all of their ad spend, whilst they thought they were targeting the Google search results, was just appearing. I don’t know if it’s called Jadsense anymore, but in the sort of display style search results rather than people actually searching Google for anything useful.

and they were just hosting, literally thousands of pounds every single month. down the drain for over a year thinking they were doing the right thing. I’ve had a similar thing with a client who started working with me, within the last month, a one to one coaching client, and they’d been running their own Google ads for quite a while.

And one of the things they’d been doing a lot of, or they thought of doing a lot of, was remarketing, where you’re showing Google ads, people who’ve already visited your website, but haven’t converted yet. And remarketing was taking up a hell of a lot of their budget, more than it, Yeah, they weren’t a mammoth company with gazillions of visitors to their website every day.

So the, actual remarketing audience shouldn’t have been that large. When I looked at it again, this is a default setting. You set your remarketing campaign up saying, I want to show adverts to, to my audience of, everyone who’s visited my website in the last 90 days, for example. But by default, the box is ticked for audience expansion.

Yeah. So it shows ads to people beyond that audience. So as soon as you do that, of course, it’s not a remarketing campaign anymore. It’s a general display campaign. And as soon as we untick that they now get, it’s a campaign that previously was getting hundreds of thousands of impressions a month now gets, a few hundred a month because it now is a genuine remarketing campaign, but it wasn’t before.

I think there’s also a really insidious little setting, in the back of Google Ads that allows Google to auto apply their suggestions without you necessarily being asked. Yeah, I sent, I was smiling because you reminded me of about a year or so ago, I sent, I do a lot of, Emails to my mailing list on how to avoid.

Some of these things that Google does and I sent an email a year or so ago where I said imagine if you’d If you just spent several hours tidying up your house and cleaning it and putting everything away and hoovering the floors Then I have that and then just as you’d finished Your two unruly teenage children came barging through the front door in muddy shoes and drop their coats here And you know chuck their bags there and made a complete mess.

That’s exactly what Google does with their auto applied recommendations, because it just happened to a, a, former client of mine. It was someone I’d done some Google Ads set up for a few years before, and he’d contacted me and said, That campaign you did for me, it’s been working fine, for the last year or whatever.

It’s suddenly stopped working in the last few weeks. Could you have a look and see what’s gone on? And it was exactly what you said there, that, Google had made these recommendations to improve the campaign, but Someone, after I’d last been involved with it, ticked the box saying auto apply recommendations.

Yeah. all these things were being done to the account without the client realising. and yeah, it was the equivalent of the teenagers coming in and trashing the house that you’ve just, spent ages sorting out. yeah, to get me to go in and unpick all the stuff they’d done and firmly turn off the auto apply recommendations thing.

Yeah. And, obviously Google do have access to an awful lot of data that can be useful as well. So I was just thinking, when it comes to targeting, do you allow Google just to optimise the targeting based on their conversion data? Or again, are you generally applying some, manual targeting based on a bit of intelligence and a bit of experience?

I do, I do use automated, bidding and targeting sometimes, but only once there’s enough data in there. although In most cases where I’ve experimented with it I’ve found that actually doing it manually still gets better results as long as you are actually obviously gonna do it manually that if you’re It was a choice between automated and actually never getting around to looking at the account at all then go with the automated but if you’re willing to actually You know, look at it every few days, once a week, whatever, and make your own optimizations.

That, in my experience, tends to be better than the automated. Do you have a sense for how much data is enough data for Google to actually be making valuable contributions when it’s being automated? Not really. I’ve, I think, because I think it needs quite a lot to do it well. And the thing is, a lot of the kind of clients I work with i’m not we’re not talking e commerce sites with lots of transactions albeit low value ones where there’s lots of conversion data If you’re talking about a service based business, like a small mortgage brokerage or financial advice firm or something You know, they might only be looking to generate You know one or two leads a day and and only have the, Google Ads budget to do that.

And so therefore, they’re, that’s not really enough conversion data to do for Google to automate the stuff on it. I don’t think from, from what I’ve seen it trying to do with that. Yeah. And, you spoke earlier about really how the auction process works. And if you had, two plumbers bidding on the same keyword in London, so plumbers in London was the keyword they’re bidding on.

Part of what Google was trying to do is, like we said before, they’re trying to maximize the amount of revenue they’re getting. And the way, one way they can maximize the amount of revenue they’re going to get is by, showing or prioritizing the ads that they expect to achieve more clicks for that particular search than other ones.

Have you got any practices for how to optimize your actual ads so that they stand out from the crowd and maybe achieve a better click through rate? Yes, you’re right in what you said, they do. In the very early days of pay per click advertising, like even pre Google doing it, it was all about the money.

So if you’ve got those two plumbers, if one’s bidding 5 and one’s bidding 4, the 5 guy would always come higher up the results. What Google did when they came into, when they first created Google AdWords as it was with Google Ads as it is now, they introduced this concept of what they call quality score.

Without going into too much detail, on Google Ads now, your position in the results is based on a combination of what you’re bidding and what your quality score is. So if you have a high quality score, it’s possible for you to be higher up the results than someone who’s bidding more than you if they’ve got a low quality score.

Okay, so, if you’re bidding 5 a click and you’ve got a quality score of 3, you’ve got an ad rank of 5 times 3 is 15. Someone else bidding 4 who’s got a quality score of 10. Has an ad rank of 4 times 10 is 40, so they’ll appear higher up, even though they’re bidding lower, right? So that’s what quality score is in simple terms.

And one of the things that boosts your quality score is, as you just said, having an advert that gets a high click through rate. an advert that’s popular, basically. yes, it is important to make sure your ads get more. Because ultimately what you’re doing is to get clicks, anyway. so some of the things are making sure that the advert is really relevant to the keyword.

this is a big mistake I think people make, is they have just one advert in their Google Ads campaign, and they try and, they use that for all their keywords. and if you’re, take that plumber again, an advert which is highly relevant to the keyword plumber in London, won’t be as relevant to the keyword plumber in Putney.

Yeah, so you need a different advert for your Plumber in Putney keywords, and another advert for your Plumber in Richmond keywords, and so on So you need to have lots of different adverts. The relevance of the ad means someone’s more likely to click on it. relevance in itself is another thing that improves your quality score, by the way, but, but having a relevant advert will get more clicks.

Other things that can do it are things like putting, I often find that putting numbers in the adverts, increases click through rates, or things, or symbols like your percentages. an advert that, says something like, what would be an example? if you had an advert that said something like, fast service, that probably wouldn’t get as many clicks as one that said, two hour response time, or that said, 98 percent satisfaction rate, or, something like that.

Numbers make adverts stand out a bit more because, most other things on the page is a wall of, letters rather than numbers. Having really clear benefits in this. A lot of adverts, they talk about features. and don’t talk about the benefits that’s being offered. even something as simple as changing the language to be using the word you more often than you use the word we.

Again, this isn’t unique to Google Ads. This is, general good copywriting advice, but all those kinds of things that make, make copy on, for example, landing pages more effective. All, tends to apply in adverts as well. Yeah. I love some of those tips. Thank you for those. and I think somewhere on my YouTube channel, there is actually a video called sort of 10 ways to make your Google ads more clickable or something.

So brilliant. if we can share the link in the show notes afterwards, that’d be super helpful for the audience. Thank you. and just thinking about then you’ve created a PPC campaign on Google and you’ve got the landing page set up and it’s all relevant and it’s generating clicks and hopefully generating inquiries for your client as well.

Yeah. Awesome. Is, that the extent of your involvement or is, PPC now something that’s matured to the point where actually it just needs ongoing marketing beyond that point as well to get the most value out of it? the biggest thing that people omit to do beyond the click, if you like, is optimizing the landing page that they’re sending people to.

so in many ways, getting someone to see your advert on Google and click on it is. Comparatively easy. The tricky bit is how do you take that person who’s clicked on your ad and turn them from a click, a visitor, into, an inquiry, into a lead. And very often I see people just sending all their traffic like, to the home page of their website or something and expecting that’s going to do the job.

And now, the home page of a website might do the job for someone who’s already heard of you, or spoken to at a networking event or been referred to by a friend. But the traffic you get from someone like Google It’s totally cold. They don’t, they don’t know you at all. So you very, you need a different approach and you need a landing page which is A, very specific to what they search for, and B, has all the right kind of ingredients on it from the world of conversion rate optimization to, subtly persuade people.

It’s all the psychology around persuasion. Persuade them to take the desired action of filling in your inquiry form or buying your product or phoning you up or whatever it is. So people very often overlook that bit. And I think the other thing people overlook is it’s the follow up process beyond it.

So I would, because people forget as well about how was the way people use the, web has changed in the last, what, 20 years. I was talking to, a financial advisor, recently is one of my clients and he’s been in the industry quite a long while and back in the, mid to late two thousands.

He was saying he used to buy leads from a lead generation company and he said he got good results from that He said he put it down to the fact that he would get the lead and he’d ring them like immediately, you know Very often they’d be like, I’ve only just you know filled in the form. That’s really quick and He said he’d found before he was working with me tried buying leads again in fact, it hadn’t worked nearly so well because why he’s now looking at to generate his own but He said he was bringing people straight away, but now they weren’t answering the phone And I said think about it.

The big difference is 20 years ago. If someone had filled in a form on a website You can be pretty certain they were sat at a computer either on a laptop or a desk, but they were sat You know, because people didn’t have smartphones. so if they’re sat at their desk, there’s a very good chance that if you ring them straight away, they’re in a position where they can answer the phone.

Whereas, of course, now, with, most, nearly all websites getting over half their traffic from mobiles rather than desktops, there’s a much greater chance that someone will be in a position where they can fill in a form. But it doesn’t mean we’re necessarily in a position where we can answer a phone call from someone the moment that form’s filled in.

it might be, I don’t know, on the bus or in the pub or, there’s a statistic somewhere about the percentage of, inquiries that are, done by people sitting on the toilet. so there’s, all sorts of situations they could be in where they’re quite happy to be filling in a form, but not necessarily to take your phone call.

so hence the follow up process, needs to be a bit more nuanced than perhaps it did before you need to make more attempts at follow up. You need to be willing to do things like, send a text message instead of, if the phone call isn’t answered because a lot of people don’t even have or listen to voicemails.

Yeah, I definitely don’t. And by and large, I’m. I’ve been educated to not answer the phone if it’s a number that I don’t recognize. Yeah, I think so many people take that particular viewpoint and There’s a saying that marketing breaks everything and there’s examples of the click through rate of the first ever banner ad got whatever it was 50 percent click through rate and now it’s 0.

1. Yeah, if you’re lucky most of those are probably misclicks as well Yeah, and there are generational differences in it as well. I think the thing you’re saying there about People being conditioned or trained not to answer the phone to unknown numbers, but that’s, very, that’s particularly the younger generations as well.

one simple way around that I often recommend clients might do is if they’ve got an inquiry form and someone fills it in and they go to a thank you page, it’s thanks for your inquiry. Put on there, thanks for your inquiry. One of our team’s going to give you a call in the next hour. they’ll be calling from this number.

save it in your phone now so you know it’s us calling. Just a simple thing like that. Can make a difference to your, contact rate. Yeah, and the, other thing that I like doing now, particularly in a B2B environment, is, just allowing people to book a time that suits them. Because it might not be convenient, they might be on the toilet, they might be on the bus, they don’t want to take a phone call, for whatever reason.

But booking in a 15, 30 minute call with somebody at a time that suits them. People respond to it. I much prefer operating in that way. Exactly. I’ve got a few clients where I’ve got them to implement that. Where again, people fill in the form and the thank you page says we’re going to give you a call in the next hour or whatever.

But it says, if that’s not going to work for you, click here to book a time in our calendar. And then it’s the best of both worlds. You’ve got their contact details, so you can still follow up. But hopefully they also then take, the client then takes that next step of actually booking into your online calendar.

Yeah, that’s a great point. Love that one. Thank you. obviously we’ve spent most of our time talking about advertising on Google. They are obviously a big, player, but they’re not quite the only show in town. and one of the tips you gave when we spoke before was, about considering Bing as well.

Do you want to talk about that for a bit? Yeah, so there is this other little company called Microsoft, who have, their own search engine. so yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s currently, it’s called Microsoft Advertising. It’s, very unimaginative name now, but it used to be called Bing Ads and it’s, yeah, it’s basically Microsoft’s equivalent or Pretty much exact copy, let’s be honest, of Google Ads.

every feature that you get in Google Ads, or every feature that gets introduced into Google Ads, gets replicated in Microsoft advertising pretty much straight away. what I have seen over the years, working with lots of different clients from lots of different sectors, and I’ve read, independent studies that sort of say the same thing, is, if you’ve got a campaign that’s working well on Google Ads, If you take that campaign and run basically the same campaign on Microsoft advertising on Bing, you can expect generally to get less traffic, which is understandable, because depending on which study you read, Bing’s only got 20 or 30 percent of the search traffic.

So you get less traffic. You’re normally paid less per click because there are fewer advertisers and hence less competition, and like any auction, the less bidders there are, the lower the You get the item for. so that’s all fairly intuitive, but the thing that is counterintuitive is very often the conversion rate with Bing ads is higher.

So the percentage of people who click your ad who then go on to make an enquiry or purchase is higher. So you’re getting less traffic for a lower cost per click and you’re getting a higher conversion rate. Now as to Why that is I’ve got a few sort of theories of my own but it’s but that’s you know I’ve seen that across lots of different sectors that the it’s not you don’t normally get enough traffic to sustain your entire business But adding that into the mix with your google ads obviously helps bring down your overall cost per acquisition Yeah, perfect, and he doesn’t want that.

Hey, yeah, I mean my Theory on why the conversion rate might be higher is I think, I mean there’s a big generalization here, but I think a lot of people who use Bing as their search engine, no one really ever chooses to use Bing as their search engine, right? I think a lot of people who use Bing as their search engine are perhaps less, online savvy, shall we say.

Maybe they’ve just been down to, PC world or whatever it’s called, where you can bolt their first computer and, and so they’ve opened that up and it’s the default browser is Edge and the default search engine is Bing. So perhaps they’re less used to the idea of shopping around and looking at lots of different sites before they buy something or make an inquiry.

that could be, part of it. But also I think, I think we were saying this when we spoke the other day that, quite often in the corporate world, People’s, computers, desktops, whatever, are locked down and they are forced to use Edge as their browser and Bing as their search engine. there’s potentially an argument that says if you’re particularly targeting people in the corporate world for whatever product or service it is, You may get actually much better results on Bing when you might think.

Yeah, I’ve also noticed particularly since ChatGPT’s partnership with Microsoft and a few more techie people than I might normally have expected use Bing as their search engine And similarly, not to do with ChatGPT, but with DuckDuckGo. And I don’t know how much of that is down to just wanting to be different, and use a sort of niche provider.

but I’ve definitely noticed it in certain audiences that is, that they will gravitate towards a different search engine. Definitely a choice, rather than just going, Oh, that’s the one that I have to use. Yeah, and there’s, yeah, so there’s always going to be those, I was going to say edge cases, but that would be a really poor pun, wouldn’t it?

But there’s, there’s always going to, it’s always worth testing these other platforms, because that, yeah, and if you, were to test Microsoft ads, for example, let’s say no one searches for what you offer on there, but it hasn’t cost you anything, because it’s pay per click, so you haven’t really got anything to lose.

Other than the very short amount of time it takes you to replicate your existing Google Ads campaign on to Bing. And they do make it incredibly easy. You can just clone your existing set up. Yes, a single click import thing, yeah. Brilliant. thank you very much. David, before I let you go, I’m asking everybody for a marketing book recommendation.

I think I know what yours is going to be, but Oh, I was going to, yeah, my own, would be one. I can’t think of a particular I’ve got a couple of books I’ve written. one was ages ago. I co authored it with someone in, 2010 2011, and it was one of the first books on how small businesses could use social media and everything.

Probably way out of date. It’s probably embarrassing to read that one now, but i’ve got a more up to date one That’s aimed at mortgage brokers. That’s how to generate mortgage leads online i’d recommend that if you’re in the financial services sector, but Yeah. Other than that, no specific.

They’re all good. Any marketing books worth reading. Yeah. Thank you very much. I’ll include a link in the show notes to your book as well. and after the show, how can people connect with you? I’m, on, on my website, https://www.theppcmachine.co.uk/ I’m on LinkedIn as, GoogleAdwordsGuy. They’re probably the best to place it or Twitter at David Miles.

Perfect. David, thank you so much for your time. Thoroughly enjoyed our conversation full of incredibly useful tips. Thank you very much. Really enjoyed it. All right. Thanks, everyone.