Direct Response Emails That Deliver Results

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Despite rumours of its demise, email marketing continues to be one of the most cost effective ways for businesses to reach and sell to their customers. But like many things in marketing, there’s a huge difference between the results you can achieve with a great email strategy versus one that’s merely okay, which is why I’m so pleased to be joined by Katja Mokotar an email marketer for CPG brands to discuss how to get people to take action from your emails.

Katja, welcome to the podcast. Great to see you again. Hi David. Thanks for having me. Look Katja, just to start things off, can you give a bit of an introduction to who you are, your background and what it is you do for your clients? Sure. So as you mentioned, I’m an email marketer. I wasn’t a marketer.

Like it wasn’t my dream job or I didn’t know I’ll get down this path. I started as a lab technician in pharmaceutical company, but then because I wanted to have location independent job, I steered towards marketing, email marketing in particularly. Because I got a really good mentor and, he taught me a lot.

And, yeah, now I’m working full time for clients, mostly founder led brands. small to medium sized businesses and so far so good. How long have you been freelancing for? Four years now. Okay, brilliant. It’s quite a leap from lab technician and I did see on your LinkedIn profile it looked like it was a lab technician for lots of vineyards.

That’s got to have some perks. Yeah, so after the lab technician job I went traveling for four or five years and I did, I worked in wine industry as a lab technician as well. So that was interesting. It was loads of fun. But eventually, every time you move place, you have to start a new, find a place to live, find a job.

And I was just getting tired off starting from square one. So I was like, I need something. I need a job that I can take it with me wherever I want to go. Yeah. And that’s one of the beauties of freelancing, isn’t it? It does give you that freedom you can nowadays work from anywhere. And it’s expected that’s a possibility.

and in terms of just the freedom it gives you in your personal life. I honestly, I couldn’t imagine going back. It would be a very sad day if I ever have to go back and start working a nine to five job from an office five days a week. And like even now when you go to the town to the city with all the traffic jam and you just imagine how much time you used to waste sitting in a car getting from point A to point B.

I It’s amazing how quickly it’s changed and I’m very pleased it has. But look, thank you for that introduction. the theme of the webinar is about direct response emails and on your LinkedIn profile, you’ve got some really nice achievements from campaigns that you’ve created there. So you reference a campaign you wrote for one of your clients where the campaign exceeded 120, 000 in sales for that client.

There was another one for a Black Friday campaign where you, I think it was more than tripled. The, the revenue that was generated from it. So in the year before you worked on it, it generated a bit under 40, 000 in, in revenue. The year you worked on it, 140, 000 plus, from that campaign. So it would be great if we could dig into those and just walk through the process for how you begin creating an email strategy and email campaigns that are going to achieve those sorts of results.

yeah, sure. so if, We take, for example, the 120, campaign. It was basically what we did was something different that what the audience is used to. the audience was used to off like a weekly week long heavy promo. what we did, it was basically an experiment, but it turned out really well. is we did a month long, but a very soft, value driven promo with a nice offer at the end of it.

So even, even the people that otherwise wouldn’t take it because it was too hard or like short notice, they got, worked into it. And that one was interested. so basically it was. a softer approach for this one. and we decided to do it simply because it was something that the audience wasn’t used to, but they loved the content that was going out.

So we said, okay, let’s try this. and that’s for a CPG brand, presumably. And you said it was a, did you say it was a week long campaign and you started off with some teas, teasing things out quite slowly for, it was a month long. It was a soft long campaign, soft month long. they usually do it a week long, but we did it on month long.

Oh, I see. So it was a lot of content. not a lot of pitching, not a lot of promo, but there was an offer afterwards, yeah. Brilliant. And when you talk about, the month long campaign and not a lot of pitching, what sort of content is it that you’re serving up during that month? depends on the audience.

So for them, it was weight loss and what we touched upon us is just what they’re going through their day to day life, what might be in their way, how they’re feeling. And then it will. Okay. So for the sale to happen, The customer, the person has to agree to three things and that they have a problem. That’s the first agreement that you have a mechanism that they can help them and that this is what they’re going to do.

So during this month they had enough time to went through all of them. yeah. Okay, that makes a lot of sense. something I’ve seen, in a lot of the email campaigns that I receive, it does relate to that first point of the customer has a problem. But often the email campaigns I’m getting initially, they’re not, I’m not necessarily in the mindset of I recognize I have a problem.

Actually, what they’re trying to do is educate me about a problem that I might not even know exists at that point in time. Is that something that you incorporated into the campaign? You’re talking about awareness level of a customer. you can know that someone needs your product or that they have a problem and you can help them.

But if they don’t know that yet, if they just feel shitty about themselves, let’s say, again, like for weight loss or they can zip up their pants and they’re just like, Oh, what am I doing wrong, right? If they’re not yet at the point where they’re, they are, I might need to lose weight. There’s nothing you can’t persuade them because they haven’t got to their point.

 

to get them at that point, you have to start where they are, that, that’s how they’re feeling, that’s how they’re experiencing their day to day life. And then move slowly to how they might want to feel. And you breach that awareness gap, you get them more aware. That makes a lot of sense. And then, so that was a great example of a longer term campaign over the course of a month.

the Black Friday example that I mentioned, presumably that’s a lot shorter timeframe because it’s that moment in time where you’ve got someone to take action. Can you talk through that? That was a completely different scenario. It was a week long, super heavy on the pitch, on the volume of emails going out, but what we did differently, what I did differently from the previous years, I segmented the people based on.

what they need. so they were targeting, post pregnancy women, but they’re, all the emails that went out was just like, we can take care of you. But what they didn’t segment about is natural, birth or C section. And once we did that, because then you’re speaking to their particular healing process.

 

So it was really against speaking to the customer and how you can take care of them. and for that example, were you treating the customers differently if they had purchased previously from that organization? Or maybe with pregnancy it’s slightly different because, it’s not something that by its nature happens very frequently.

but it’d be great if you could talk about maybe the customer journey and how that fits into email marketing. So Black Friday specifically for that brand wasn’t about renewing the customers. It was obtaining the new one, the first one. So it would be slightly different if we wanted to do that one as well.

 

but as a customer journey, it’s different to awareness levels where you’re at. so let’s say you land on a website of a business. That’s your consideration stage. You’re considering, do I want to keep in touch with them? Should I opt in? and you’re browsing through the website when you opt in, you said, okay, let’s see what they have to say from that point on for email.

journey starts. And that’s with the acquisition, which is basically you show everything you have, you Peacock around and try to get the customer. that’s, that can be card sequence. So like when someone puts something in a cart and live it, if someone browse a product, and leaves a website that’s your daily emails with helpful content to, just show what you do and how you can help them get better, feel better, whatever they want to do.

 

After that, after the acquisition, after you got the customer, you have service. That’s something that not enough businesses do. It’s basically a service. Basically, you deliver On everything and more that you were promising in the acquisition part. So whether that’s, customer support, super nice onboarding to make them feel really special and not just the number.

 

it can be, churn retention when you’re like, how are you doing so far? we have a team of experts that can help you out, reach out. We can have a zoom call, things like that. Really personal. and after the service, you have loyalty. That’s where you really dial into your customers.

Because again, of the 80 20 rule, right? Same applies for email. 80 percent of your revenue will come for 20 percent of the customers. So you really need to treat those as they deserve. So that’s the customer stages throughout the email. Yeah, I saw, you’ve reminded me of an example that I saw, back in Christmas.

I purchased, some, it was some health supplements for my wife as a small gift at Christmas. it was a decent company and they were keeping me up to date. There was, after I’ve made the purchase, they were keeping me informed of, hey, we’re going to be dispatching it soon. But something that they did really well that I actually ended up taking advantage of was when they were emailing me about, hey, we’re going to be dispatching your product soon.

they used it as an opportunity to upsell me something else that would, that would add value to what I had already purchased. And the messaging they were using was, look, we’re we’re sending this out to you anyway, so you’re not going to pay any more delivery charge. And also here’s a special offer on doing it.

And I took them up on it. I thought that was such a great approach just to add an additional 20 percent to their basket. Yeah. Yeah. and for business, it’s the best way to raise their orbit or average order value for you. It’s, convenient. It’s like in your mind, you thought, Oh, that I’m not paying for shipping.

So it’s cheaper. And it was timely. It was relevant. And Yeah, that’s how I already trusted them, obviously, because I’ve made a purchase beforehand, so they didn’t need to work too hard to get me to add anything else. And also just from a fundamental business perspective, it cost them something to get me to become a customer in the first place.

And if they can increase the value that I’m spending with them, that gives them a huge competitive advantage over anyone else who’s not going down that route. Yeah, because most like a lot of brands. have one time buyers, but they don’t make enough effort to get into that second, third order, which I think the third order is where the real magic happened.

Because first one is, okay, let’s see if this works for me. And then if you don’t see the results, it’s okay, maybe I need a bit more time. Let’s try another one. But When they purchase the third, that’s when they’re really buying into you and your product. Yeah. It almost becomes a habit at that point.

Yeah. Great. You mentioned, with the first campaign that you were discussing, that the approach you took of spreading it over a month and building up gradually, educating the recipient about Problems that they might be experiencing before moving on to actually the promotion of selling that was an experiment.

Be great if you could talk particularly with your background as a lab technician. I’m sure that experiments and taking a scientific approach to this is it’s just in your DNA. It’d be great if you could talk a bit about how you test email campaigns. so So let’s say we are doing, broadcast.

These are one time emails that go to like weekly or daily newsletter. It’s more like day to day content that you sent out as an email for these. I would test subject lines first to see what works better. Is it curiosity, subject line or is it value? So curiosity was like, Do this one thing to lose. I don’t know.

You’ll never guess what happened next. Yeah. value driven or benefit driven is more specific. oh man, I’m blanking out, but it’s more, it’s higher intent. They’re already more aware. And once you know what works to get them the email open, then you can move down the email copy, to see what gives you the best results.

But I wouldn’t go as far as testing the entire body copy. that’s the email itself. from what I’ve seen, the most important part of the email copies, the first two sentences, the hook, because if you have a strong hook, The rest of it. It’s not that it doesn’t matter. But if the hook is really strong, they’re going to click it.

They want to know more. the hook just to help me get this straight in my mind, the hook when you’re talking about that’s not actually the subject line. it’s the first sentence or two that grab someone’s attention once they’ve already opened the email. So the subject line would be like a teaser.

And then. The hook would be like what really grabs their attention. They’re like, Oh, I need to more know. what is this? Have you seen, any, any difference in performance on the style of email campaigns that people receive and the actions that people take off the back of it? So when, what I mean by that is I have noticed in my inbox, and I get quite a lot of promotion emails from B2B type of brands.

more and more I’m getting emails that are purely text driven and I’ve, I think I actually have a preference for that as opposed to the nice glossy designed emails that might be promoting a CPG brand. But it’d be great to understand what you’ve noticed and what results you’ve seen. so I am the text only, camp and purely because.

Email started as a one to one space. what a lot of marketers or brands forget is that email inbox is a personal space of someone. You earned the right to email them once they sign up, but that doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want. That’s why I always think that the, it should resemble that conversation like we’re having now.

Glossy image, heavy, emails, they can work, they do work, otherwise they wouldn’t be as abundant. but it has a pros and cons, right? The pros is that it looks more on brand. it looks nice. It’s, it catches eyes, different things. but what it’s important is the outcome of an email.

Do you want them to click because they saw a nice image or do you want them to click because they’re interested in what you have to offer? So all in all, I don’t have hard numbers to back it up, but I’m a text. and on your point about email really originated and is intended as a one to one communication method, have you got any views on who it is that the email should look like it’s being sent from?

So you might be sending a promotional campaign on behalf of the company, but should it come from that company’s brand or should it come from a person, even if it’s a fictional person, but a persona that’s representing that company? it depends what you want, how you want the people to view your brand.

If you’re more a corporate type, then it might be better to send it as a brand, as an entity or something. If you are the face of a brand, I think it should be you as a founder or some person, it can be a support girl or, An expert or someone or your like personal assistant. I’ve seen different things, but with the brands that I work, they always send from that one person.

Usually that’s the founder or assistant. Yeah. And the reason I ask that is I’ve noticed again, more and more emails that when I stop and think rationally about it, I know that the CEO’s not written it. Or it’s a very slim chance that they written it. They certainly haven’t sent it and start personalizing things to me.

But I’ve really got to stop and think about that before I actually in turn, before I recognize that when it pops into my inbox. Okay, that’s Rob. There you go. Of course, it’s not Rob. It’s their company, but it works brilliantly on me. Yeah, that’s something that I think we have. It’s part of our evolution and we haven’t.

I think when you see a. It’s you can wait, what do you want? You’re a business. I’m sure you’re selling me something. But even that slight change, when you see a person’s name, it’s different. Like it, it’s someone, it’s not something, it’s someone. Yeah, that’s how I think of it.

Yeah, no, totally agree. And so someone’s received the email, had a great subject line, we’ve hooked them in with the first couple of lines of copy, they’ve read down, they’ve been convinced to take an action, so they’ve properly clicked through from some link on the email. Where do they go? What would be your direction there?

Would you have a dedicated landing page specifically for the email? Would you just be directing them to the website? What is it you’re looking to achieve? depends what you want to achieve with an email, what you’re doing at that particular time in business. If you’re purely selling a product, then it should land on a product page.

If you’re having like an overarching campaign where you have a specific messaging, then lead them to the landing page to, to expand on the topic you talked about in the email. But the rule of thumb for wherever you lead them, it can be also a homepage or, book a call with us or something like that.

Reach out to our support team. the rule of thumb is the better your landing page or product page converts, the better it performs, the shorter the email can be. Because. then the page will do the heavy lifting. So the email doesn’t, and if it’s vice versa, if you have just like the basic click here by this page, then your email should do most of the lifting because they’re not going to get any more info for from the page.

So they should be sold in the email. Yeah, is having to do the selling on behalf of the landing page before they actually get there. makes perfect sense. Thank you. what’s something that most people in marketing get wrong with email marketing? I’m going to judge a little here. not everybody does that, but from the stuff that I’m getting in my inbox from, things on my radar and brands and all that, it’s Too much selling.

So you have to think of making a sale or keeping the customer as a relationship as a email marketer, you are managing human to human relationship on scale. So if we take a step back, would you be drawn to someone who is always like Talking about their stuff, how they’re great, how they’re doing amazing.

And me, it would be probably like, Oh, just get over it. Yeah. But if you approach the situation from what’s up, let’s get to know each other. let’s see how we vibe. I’m going to help you, but I’m not gonna, push you into anything. If you, Come from more like a first you give something and give and give and then you ask to take that works way better on the long term.

 

I love the point you made about its human connection at scale. I think that’s such a nice phrase. Thank you. I think it’s a great point to end on, but before I let you go, I am asking everybody for a book recommendation. I’d love to hear yours. Okay, I’m currently reading all the Harry Potter’s. Okay, I wasn’t expecting that.

That’s my number one. but for marketing, I think Seth Godin, This is marketing has a nice umbrella book that speaks about marketing in general for email marketing in particular. especially direct response, anything from Eugene Schwartz , anything that has to do with psychology basically, because you learn that the technicalities as you go, there’s like psychology will be evergreen, but technicalities will be brand specific.

So I guess I’ll say anything from Eugene Schwartz for direct response. Okay, I’ve not really read any of those books, so I will go and check them out. Thank you for the recommendation. look Katja, thank you so much. You’ve imparted so much knowledge and technical experience on email marketing. how can people connect with you after the show?

they can find me on LinkedIn or they can email me. it’s also on my LinkedIn page, so I guess LinkedIn. All right. I will include the link to your profile in the show notes. Thank you so much Katja. Thanks. Thank you, everyone. Have a good one.