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EPISODE 6 – Rob Beadle

Crafting Compelling Case Studies

Whether it’s fair or not, people generally don’t trust marketing, which is what makes customer case studies so valuable. Instead of it being marketing teams broadcasting a message, your customers are sharing their stories in their own words. 

In this episode of Marketing Freed I’m joined by Rob Beadle who shares insights from his career as a B2B Technology Copywriter about how case studies can be used throughout the whole buying journey, and how businesses can systemise getting new case studies created rather than leaving it up to chance.


In this episode, we discuss:

  • The versatility of case studies
  • How case studies can be repurposed to get maximum value from them
  • Why case studies shouldn’t be gated
  • Whether to aim for household names or more representative customers as a vendor
  • How to bake getting case studies created into your business processes





During the episode, we mention Case Study Kickstarter, a useful guide that Rob has created to help businesses get started with creating case studies. You can download this free guide at https://robbeadle.co.uk/marketing-freed/ 


The Adweek Copywriting Handbook by the iconic copywriter and advertising expert Joseph Sugarman is an essential guide to crafting compelling advertising content across all platforms, including print, TV, and radio.

This book is a must-have for aspiring advertising professionals and seasoned practitioners aiming to enhance their skills, offering a comprehensive look at high-calibre copywriting with real-world examples. It stands as an unparalleled resource in the advertising world, offering priceless knowledge for those looking to excel in the art of copywriting.

Buy the book from Amazon.



Episode Transcript
Episode transcript

This week on Marketing Freed, I’m joined by CRM and lead generation expert Simon Washbrook. Simon, welcome. Great to have you on the show. Hi there. Great to be here. Thank you. Good to see you. look, Simon, just for the audience, do you want to start at the beginning, talk a bit about who Popcorn are, what Popcorn do, and your journey to starting it?

Okay, so I suppose first one who is Popcorn? What is Popcorn? Popcorn is a really simple to use CRM that’s been specifically designed for small businesses. We’ve cut all the stuff a business, small business doesn’t need out of it and just got the essential marketing tools to be able to manage, nurture and convert their prospects faster.

So in non marketing speak, we help you win sales faster. If that makes sense, the business itself was, it was founded by me. I suppose if I’ll tell you a bit about my background here. Yeah, please. So my background is I started off and you can get a real nutshell history of me here is I actually went to university and I studied fashion and textiles, which you can really tell from my outfit here.

It’s lovely. and it was just not anything I wanted to do, but luckily in my second year of my degree, I, we were launched Into into our modules, and they went right. You’re all going to be independent designers. Most of you. So you’ll all need to learn how to market yourselves. And that was my it was the proverbial light bulb moment, really, because I went with Ooh, I’ve always been fascinated in people, what drives people’s behaviors and so I took the marketing module on, I did what I need to do and I started doing stuff outside of that, around digital, around learning about other marketing and people and all that sort of stuff and then I went on to do a masters, again ticking the box for fashion textiles, but basically focusing on marketing, which led me into getting my first role, which was great and I worked my way up there.

So I started off with Company called Angle Poise Lamps, which Most of you guys probably won’t know, but your parents will be the queen. God rest her soul. she used to have one on the desk. It was, it’s like the Rolls Royce of desk lamps and it was brilliant. It was a small family business and you got your hands dirty.

I was doing absolutely everything around marketing and bit of sales and this. I loved it. And I worked my way up the corporate ladders to the point where I was in a division of BMW group and that division did CRM integration. And. They’re a great company, but it just wasn’t right for me in any way, shape or form.

What I loved was being in that small business where you got your hands dirty and you really did delivered stuff and you had that responsibility. So I jumped out of the corporate world and set up on my own as a marketing consultant, and I went only want to work with small business. One thing I really learned from BMW group was the importance of joining up marketing and sales and their marketing function was very much.

How do we get leads straight into sales and it was tracked. It was managed. Everything was done beautifully. so when I set up, I started doing that to a degree with people more on digital, but I realized that small businesses don’t really do anything around that. They often focus on the now. Or doing a bit of marketing and there’s no, So that was my key focus and I was doing that and my major realization after a few years was that we needed a piece of software because I was spending lots of time producing spreadsheets for people going there’s the 10 people you need to phone and this is why. So I built Popcorn to answer that need because a lot of software out there was too complex, too complicated or you needed loads of bits, which was really messy and they lost loads of sales.

That’s the principle of Popcorn to bring it all together. What we did then was a kind of prototyped it all, and we produced run version three of the platform now, so it’s apps. It’s working beautifully. It’s as I wanted it to be from day one, which is only for small business. So what it does beautifully there.

Probably a little longer than a nutshell, which I promised in the beginning, but hopefully it makes sense. It’s a great introduction. Thank you. And totally agree with your point about the importance of aligning sales and marketing together because I’ve been on, I’ve worked on numerous campaigns where from a marketing perspective, it is thoroughly thought through and it’s been implemented brilliantly to the point of the marketing campaigns happened.

And then there’s no follow up. there’s no action anywhere else and it just falls flat and you sat there scratching your head going, how’s it all, how’s nothing come of this? Because this is absolutely brilliant and all it would have taken would have been somebody to pick up the phone at that right moment and speak to somebody.

And you might find there were a couple of really good sales people who’d been able to been able to speak to beforehand, get their buy in, and they’re proactively contacting the people that they know are going to be a good fit for that particular campaign. And unsurprisingly, their results, they’re the ones that tended to hit their, pipeline goals and their sales targets every, month and every quarter.

but totally agree that is absolutely crucial, particularly for B2B marketing. And it’s one of the biggest pitfalls I see with small businesses where I see a successful business is where they, and I’m sure you’ll know, clients will be able to relate to this. It’s that sort of delivery sales, peaks and troughs that they go through.

So they’ll be working on the marketing. They’ll get this smash this amazing campaign. They’ll get a load of leads and they’ll focus on those and they’ll go, Oh God, we’ve got no sales now. Focus on that. And all they need to do is keep a consistent behavior going and keep joining up and not just focusing on the.

I suppose on the low hanging fruit that comes out from campaigns where someone picks the phone and says, hi, can you work with me? It’s going, these people have shown the behaviors. These people are there and they’re perhaps not ready to buy now. They’re ready to buy tomorrow or six months or whenever it is, but understanding that it’s about building a pipeline up.

And the small business that I see that has the most success are the ones that see that and they just keep that nurturing going throughout. And that’s where it just grows and it grows exponentially. It’s really, it’s beautiful. Without trying to say cheese. It’s beautiful when you see it actually happening.

Yeah, absolutely. you mentioned about designing Popcorn to be the CRM for small businesses. Obviously there’s, tons of other CRM platforms out there. Some targeted at large enterprises, some for the middle ground. specifically with Popcorn, what is it that sets Popcorn apart from the likes of your hub spots and your sales forces?

Okay. Before I answer that, I think the best way, because as you said, there’s loads of systems. The key thing, and I often do this with customers is I prospects as well is I’ll try and explain to them about the systems. So we tend to break them up into three types because that’s where we usually find Every business will sit in one of these three buckets.

So over here, you’ve got your startup businesses, and I’m not talking about age of business. I’m talking about their where they’re starting to get sales focused, where they’re starting to become proactive and That could be. And what typically they’re doing there is, and I’m sure a lot of you out there will probably relate to this is, they’ve got a spreadsheet, they’ve got some stuff in Trello, they’ve got MailChimp, they’ve got ABCD& E, but what it means is you’ve got a whole bunch of data in different places, which isn’t joined up.

You can’t see the big picture. And because of that, you start losing sales and missing opportunities. And the business feels pain when they realize that. And the reaction to pain Is to panic and that panic is they then jump right the way over to this side here and go to advanced software Now, the advanced software is brilliant.

It’s bits like, Zoho, HubSpot, Salesforce, Infusionsoft, those sort of systems, they’re amazing systems, but they aren’t designed for people that are here. Because the cultural change and the impact to making a business work like this, and let alone the cost and complexity of it. It was a beautiful one.

I try not to be static, but I have got a few, which I’ll probably throw out today. But I think it is 64 percent of small businesses that start using and this is a stat from salesforce. com and 64 percent that start using advanced CRM systems fail because of complexity. And that’s one of their own stats for their own prospects, which does baffle me.

but anyway, They’re there, they panic, they fail on that, and then they jump back to here where they were failing anyway, and they just go into this cycle of dancing. the middle slot is filled full of middle range CRM systems. There’ll be ones on the peripheries, which are these basic ones, which have bolted some kind of called themselves CRM.

but they aren’t actually CRMs. and the other ones are the ones that are trying to become advanced ones. They’ve got loads and loads of features into the middle sliver where it’s actually designed for small businesses. is actually really small. So that’s where we focused. We do not want to be either of those systems.

We’re very clear about it. So to answer your question in a long and about round way, what makes us different is simplicity. So you go into our system One click, you’ve got all your information in front of you. It’s really visual and it’s focused around sales. So everything you do, you can see behaviors, you can see activities.

We’ll do lead gen for you around everything you’re doing. So it just makes life easy for you to use it. And we’re backed up with customer support and we’re great. I am biased, I have to say. You’re allowed to be, you’re allowed to be. But I particularly like the point about simplicity because I’ve, I suppose the point around whatever it was about two thirds of businesses fail when implementing their high end or complex CRM systems.

I would assume it can actually fail for a couple of reasons. One, technically people aren’t able to actually wrap their head around it or people leave jobs and whoever then inherits that can’t unpick the spaghetti mess that somebody else, their predecessors, built for them. I’ve seen it the other end as well, where Highly intelligent engineering type minds have created this behemothly, I mean it’s just a massively complex system that’s got all these different algorithms and calculations scoring marketing qualified leads in the background.

And it’s churning out data, but you, nobody understands what it means and therefore it’s useless and you’re getting stats that say, compared to last month, we’ve got three times as many marketing qualified leads and go, that’s wonderful. We’ve still got exactly the same number of sales meetings going on for the sales team.

We’ve still got exactly the same number of customers that we’re winning each month. So meaningless, right? And I guess that’s really the theme for today’s conversation. It’s how can you actually get your email and your CRM working together so that it’s generating more sales for your business. I think that’s, it’s, I’ve got, we met somebody as prospects or several months ago now, obviously won’t give names or anything to protect them and all that.

but what they’re doing, they came to me and they’re going. Exactly the same scenario as you. We’ve got a system set up. It’s just not working. We’re generating loads of leads, but nothing’s coming out at the end. We don’t understand it. We’ve given loads of sales training. We’ve done this. We’ve done that.

And they were pulling the hair out and in the space of a 30 minute conversation, which went from them explaining it, having a nice chat. I was able to solve the problem for them. And it’s very simple. That techie mind. Or that’s especially when people like gadgets, it’s one of the biggest failures, especially for small business because they go in there and go, Oh, there’s a shiny feature there.

I can apply that. I can do this. I can do that. And they end up setting up all of this automation, which is going to solve their world because Automate means I don’t have to do anything, but one of the problems we do in automation is it removes the person out of the sales process and if something goes wrong somewhere in that process.

Now, when I say goes wrong, I don’t necessarily mean technically. if the person chain, the prospect is no longer a prospect or has changed an opinion or something, and they move out of where they’re supposed, where they’re supposed to be in that automated buying cycle. That automated approach can turn somebody off and you lose them.

So the first thing I said was delete half your automations, have a sales, somebody in whatever position was salesperson, customer service. When the lead comes in, get them to manually input it, get them to manually look at it and go, actually, no, this needs to have this done. Then have a bunch of automations that happen to that.

Yes, but make sure the human interactions at points, whether it’s just a sanity check, whether it’s to engage on a real personal level, whatever it is, just make sure that’s there. And the reason I tend to say that is because people buy from people. They don’t buy from machines. It’s one of the problems we have with chat GPT and things like that is they just churn out this generic information, which as soon as you read it, you can see what it is.

And it’s the same with 90 percent of automation. You can see what it is. So that’s one of my first tips I’d say for improving your thing is keep it simple and keep it human. Yeah, I think automation happens best when it’s actually automating a process that’s already working. So it might be a manual process, but it’s proven it’s effective.

And if you can then take the manual work and the time and the effort out of it, then let’s, automate that. Why wouldn’t you? But don’t suddenly think that some automated tool is going to come up with some pearls of wisdom that otherwise you weren’t going to be privy to and start building processes around that.

I’ve seen it, I was speaking with, this is a, at a previous employer. the, they’re a very nice investment firm at the time, but they brought in a consultant to add a bit of value. That’s what private equity firms do. And this consultant happened to be, I think a HubSpot specialist.

And they’re trying to convince us that really you’ve got, to focus on lead scoring because that at the time was something that HubSpot were really strong on and I think probably stronger than the rest of the market. And I was trying to explain to them, look. The average deal value for us at the time was, it was in the region of the lifetime value was well into six figures and you could argue it was going to be into the quarters of millions, maybe even millions of pounds per customer, depending on how long they stuck around.

So if we’re getting, let’s say, let’s call it a hundred leads might be pretty typical per month. We’re going to call every single one of them. We’re not going to automate it. We actually want a human being to have a conversation with them and understand what’s going on and demonstrate some value to them and not just rely on churning out a quite generic email that everybody else is going to receive.

And they just were unable, unfortunately, to get their head around it. Or perhaps it’s the other way around. I’m unwilling to, I think there’s a saying around, you can’t get someone to understand something if their salary depends on not understanding it. . Yeah, I think I agree with you entirely on this, because you, it goes back to the whole thing of what we talked about around sales and marketing joining up.

What does a salesman or salesperson want to do? they want to close. They want to get there as quick as possible. And what’s the biggest complaints they have about marketing? They don’t pass as good enough quality leads. Let people just focus on going doing what? And if you’re only getting 100 leads in, that’s what?

What’s that about? Three, four phone calls a day plus your follow ups and that it’s nothing, especially when your values that. So if you are going to use least group and we do that, it is really powerful. Look at what you’re actually rating somebody on. So most people go, I’ll rate it on opens and clicks.

They mean absolutely nothing. so what my favorite one is to where you start speaking to people, they go, I’ve got this open rate of my emails of this 82%. Brilliant. But they look at the unique opens of that email and you’ve only got 20%. So what that’s telling us, yes, people are opening. The difference, very quickly, the difference between an open and a unique open, for those that don’t know, is an opening counts the number of times an email has been opened.

Unique is telling you how many people have opened it, so the people one is the really important one. But Then you’ve got something you can pull out of it from, repeat opens and all that, but there, but the majority of those opens are often generated by mobile phones, pre opening emails or things like that, which is just generated the auto open.

So it doesn’t tell you too much clicks are often generated by spam filters. as they open the email, they’ll whoo, we’ve got a brilliant lead. Nobody’s been through it. So we tend to say to people, don’t look at any of those things, but focus on when they’ve been on your website, what have they been looking at on your website?

And if that’s tied in with the lead scoring and your CRM, you see a really interesting pattern because then you might see an email has been opened once. Great, open to delete, but then they open it again, maybe not open to delete. They’ve clicked on a couple of links. Brilliant. But then they’ve gone through to the website and looked at a couple of pages, come back to the website again a few days later, reading your case study page, reading this, doing that, engaging with this.

That is showing you real behaviors because a bot can’t simulate looking at random pages on your website or going to your website. They just ping it. But that is where you want to be putting your weighting of your interest. Now, for a salesperson, that is utter gold dust because one of my favorite, Favourite stats.

Again, number two for the for today’s session is by a guy from a guy called Marcus Sheridan. He wrote a brilliant book. but what he talks about is the fact that 80 percent of the buying decision. So that’s before personal reach out to a sale to reach out. Sales is made Sorry, I’ll start again.

80 percent of someone’s buying decisions made before they’ll reach out to sales. So You’ve got when their ex person is actually speaking to you by choice You’re in the final tail. You’re down to the final couple of people. It’s just qualification of ideas and costs. So if you can spot when someone’s looking at page on your website, they’re doing research about you.

They’re in the early stage of research. So that’s when if sales reach out and answer the questions around the pages they’re looking at on the website, so you can start tailoring your web pages. So you get real intelligence. That’s when sales people can confer even faster by doing that. Yeah, that’s a really interesting point about the buying decision being made before someone actually reaches out.

I certainly do that. It’s my preference. I want to know what I’d like to buy before speaking to somebody. Or at least have researched enough about it so I feel like I’m not going to be on the back foot when I start that conversation with them, particularly if it’s a sort of technical or slightly complex purchase.

with that in mind, do you have a particular view on whether content should generally be gated on your website or not?

that’s that’s a minefield decision for me. I tend to take the approach of I’ll give information away free of charge. there’s no, Paywall, there’s no, you’ve got to provide your email address to get in there at all. and the reason why I do that is I want people to see the benefit of what we do because they can’t do it without our software.

I’m not talking about withholding. I’m talking the intelligence that we do and the way we join it up. If I can educate somebody around sales cycles and get them doing it so a person gets to the place of being actually ready and want to, want to use our products, want to use our services rather than us having to cajole them and force them, we find the buy in from our users is far greater.

Yeah, great. And you touched on, I suppose some really helpful, valuable signals that you’re able to get out of your CRM by combining that with web browsing behavior and email open rates, and then communicating that on to the sales team. How would you recommend businesses use CRM? Is it, are you providing all of this information to the sales team when they go into the prospects record?

Are you asking marketing to flag up a list of warmer prospects for people to get in contact with? How would you handle that? I suppose if I talk you through the process we use internally. so if you’re a prospect out there, please close your ears. so what we do is we, I’ll talk about one very specific process we do.

this is, we’ve got our database of contacts. We’ll send out a regular email, whether that’s to everyone or to the very targeted specific groups. We’re giving away free information in there, and it’s genuinely free. So if you get something, please click on it and look at it. you will get value from it because if I don’t have value, I don’t see the point in doing it.

So for us, what we do is we then use the lead screen when we see people engaging in positive ways for us. We’ll look at that and go. Are they in that stage where they perhaps need some additional support to help make decisions? So then what we’ll do is we’ll do one of two things. We’ll either send them an email from the platform.

So we get more tracking, more analytics for what they’re looking at, which links they’re clicking in, or we’ll do what exactly what we said at the start is we’ll pick the phone up and have a conversation with them. Now that’s not a sales pitch conversation. How can we help you around this subject and you know if there isn’t an opportunity in there and what we say no But the salesperson what sorry I’ve jumped forward here, but so we see them flag up as a hot prospect They will also inside of Popcorn.

You can create sales funnels sales pipelines in there So when they flag up, we’ve got a bit of automation that says when someone hits this level of prospect Automatically put them in needs a phone call column. So the salesperson will then look at that and go, this is where the human element kicks in and goes, actually, yes, they are in.

They do look like they need some support or they’re in that research phase and they’ll make decisions to do we send the email or do we make the phone call? At that point, it kicks in and then we can just progress them down the pipelines. But at any point, whether it’s sales, whether it’s myself or whoever it is, can just click into the contact and go, I can see everything’s happening.

They. They’ve been looking at these webpages, sales has made a call to them, they phoned in and asked about this, we’ve got a big picture immediately there for them, and it just by doing it that way, it makes it really simple and really easy for everybody to be joined up. Yeah, makes sense. You spoke about some of the flows of communication there being based on email and why not because email by and large is free to send and you don’t want to be spamming people but it’s an extremely important way for businesses to communicate with their customers and with their prospects.

Have you got any guidance and tips that you would recommend businesses to improve the effectiveness of their marketing emails? Okay, so yeah there’s a few I can share in here but one of the things I would say is I haven’t heard it for a while now, but you went through a stage where people go, email marketing’s dead.

It doesn’t work. And this is. It does. If you still look, the preferred mechanism of communication for a business owner is via email. You look at, take any business, and I’ll ask anybody out there to think about it themselves. What typically, I would say, what’s the first thing we do when we wake up in the morning?

We wake up, we listen to a bit of radio, whatever it is, we reach over, we check our phones. And one of those things we’re checking is our email. Because it’s a great way. It’s not invasive. You can share the information you need and you can come back to it and respond to it at a timely manner. So that is one of the key things.

A lot of, I do often have the conversation with people where they’re going, shouldn’t we be sending texts? Shouldn’t we be whatsapping people? But I’ve always been of the belief that the, those mechanisms, text, whatsapp, for example, Unless you are a very specific type of business that works great is your car garage or your dentist where you’re providing very personal service to the individual, then it’s okay sitting there, but not a lot of marketing as soon as the likes of me, if I send a text message out to yourself and hit your text, your inbox, you’re going to look at it and go swipe, delete.

Because it’s where I get my messages from my friends. It’s where I speak to my family. You don’t want to be marketed to in those reasons. So email has a very, valuable place, and it still is extremely relevant in the marketplace. So a couple of tips for you in that if you are going to do emails, and this applies with email marketing, whether it is General emails.

First one is if you keep your subject line to under 16 characters. Now, I can’t remember the exact stats in this, but you will increase your open rate. So the number of people that are engaging with the email by about, I think it’s 2. 5%. So it’s a nice tick up straight away. If you can keep that under nine characters, you’ll put about another one and a half percent on that open rate.

So you put in about four and a bit percent on there just by keeping it under nine characters. Now. As soon as people start thinking about that, they go, God, how can I get my sales message into nine characters? It’s one word. it’s nothing. but that’s the whole point. Because if you think about what a spam filters job is to do, and whether I’m talking spam filter here, I’m talking about the electronic ones we’ve got on our email systems and the one that’s up here for picking out spam.

Okay, they’re both programmed To block messages the person doesn’t want to receive and to let through the important ones. That is the core focus of their being. Now, if you were to send an email to your best mate, to your mum, to your colleague, what’s a subject line likely to look like? It’s going to be, Hi, weekend, report, chasing, so it’s all one word.

Yeah, beers, question mark. Yep. When somebody sends a sales email, what do they put in there? Buy my great product. It’s the best. It’s brilliant. It’ll add this value. It’ll do this. It’ll do this. Thousands of characters. So what is the first thing when you look at an email that tells you it’s a sales email?

It’s length. So keep it short. And I promise you, you’ll see a massive uptick in email opens. So very simply explained, but hopefully it makes sense. Sorry to interrupt there, but it just, occurred to me. Have you got a view on whether when you’re sending marketing emails from a business that the actual from should be the company name or should it be from a representative of the business?

So if we go back to where we were at the very start of the conversation. People buy from people. Now if you get something sent from Hello at Is that somebody trying to communicate with me personally? Do I care about that email? But if I get an email from David at, I’m going to go, Oh, that’s a real person.

I stand more chance of going. That’s a real person. Yeah. So I would always send, and also use spam filters and set up to pick out your sales. That’s in all those things. So that increases your chance of getting caught up, but by keeping it personal, you should get a far greater response, right?

I’ll tell you the other thing that I’ve noticed is, I’m much more likely to actually read and respond to an email when it looks, it’s probably been sent to thousands of people, but it looks like it’s a one to one email. It doesn’t look like a glossy marketing designed email at all, often in that style of email as well.

The shorter the better. And if it includes at the very end something that’s easy to respond to. So it’s not just informative. It’s a would you like to arrange a call? A kind of yes, no response. I don’t even need to think about it at that stage. It is just, okay, I’ve got two options.

And this is how I reply. I’m not having to click on a button and then be taken to a landing page and then fill in a form. It’s, I reply to the email and I say, yeah, interested or no, thanks. That’s it. Done. I’m so much more likely to actually do something off the back of that. I agree with you entirely. And it’s interesting you say that because When we look at email and those emails, I’ve got a really strong place, but you can kill them if you use them too often.

So we break emails down into it. So I was going to come in for that’s not for four groups. into four different types. So you’ve got your first, which is your personal email, which is what you’ve meant. It looks like it’s come from Gmail Outlook, whatever it is. Quick tip on that. Whenever you send an email, whether it’s your normal day to days or marketing one, put photo of yourself.

People like to know who they’re talking to, makes you feel more real, more of a person. They’re more likely to engage. the second one of those is a newsletter. Now we all know what a newsletter is, what they look like. Do they add any value to the user typically? Not really. Cause most people tend in a newsletter to go, Hey, I’m brilliant.

and does, somebody else want to know how brilliant you are? Probably not. No, they won’t know what’s in it for me. So if you can do a newsletter. Keep the thought of what’s in it for your reader in there the whole time. And I’ll come back to format of personal emails in a second. the other thing I would say is the next one is, a kind of classic, is a bit of a shop front email.

So that’s something that Amazon sends out, where you have a list of products with a call to action. They’re brilliant. If you’re selling products and stuff like that, keep it simple, keep key products on there, keep it and fire it out. The next one is a postcard. And that is as it says, it’s your flyer, you get a graphic on there with a big offer on there.

Nice and glossy, shiny, single button call to action, single message. They’re great and going back to sorry, because I missed this out on your personal email. I totally agree with you in the sense of Keep it short. We’re all busy. and we don’t have the time to read something we’re not interested in.

So if you make a lengthy email, how do I know I’m interested in it? And going back to what we were saying earlier on, from a sales perspective, if someone’s read everything, How do we know they’ve read it? How do we know what they were interested in, what they were turned on by, what they were turned off by?

So if you keep it short and put one or two calls to action in there, so click here to read my top 10 tips on doing this or click here to get started. You will then see because they want to find out you put a nice hook in there, what they’re interested in, which feeds sales and they’re more likely to go to it because I’ve only got a glance to look at it.

So yeah, keep it really simple. But the secret sauce from my opinion around sending emails is mix it up. So do your monthly newsletter, make sure it adds value, send that out, but don’t look at it as a sales tool. Okay? And then Underneath that, you can then have something that goes out to, let’s say you identify a bunch of prospects who have been engaging with A, send them a postcard about it, which is doing a flyer, which is promoting that specific product, see if they engage.

Or you might want to send a personal email out to those people and make it look because they’ve been receiving this newsletter from you for X period of time from, they go and they go, Oh, great company sending this. It’s brilliant. nice branded everything. Then all of a sudden they get an email, a personal email from the owner.

They’re going to go, Ooh, I’d matter. I’m important to this person. Chef, just puffed up a bit. I’ll pay a bit more attention to this. Then they read you, the thing, keep it no more than nine lines by their personal emails. they’ll read it, they’ll engage with it. You see an absolute skyrocket on engagement on those sort of emails when you do that pattern in there.

They already know, and trust you. And then you’re, then you’ve got an ask. Exactly. And because you’ve kept it simple, you’ve driven to your website, you’ve got sales analytics going in there to feed your, because most of these people at this stage will still probably be doing research. Yeah. You’re feeding your sales team with calls to make.

Great stuff, thank you. Look, Simon, I’m conscious of the time, so just close this out with a few more questions, before I let you go. If there’s someone in the audience, listening who, perhaps they’re struggling with their current CRM, perhaps they’ve got themselves into that horrible, tangled mess, perhaps they’re looking at alternatives, maybe they’ve got, they’re just struggling with bits of paper and spreadsheets, with various bits of information scattered everywhere, where would you advise them to start?

Okay. Obviously I would say come to Popcorn because we’re brilliant. but one thing we’ve done and I’ll share the link with you afterwards is we’ve put together a quiz. Now it’s a six question quiz. I’ve done it again. Six questions. It’s not six. There’s six questions. cannot count today. Yeah, it’s a six question quiz.

It’ll take you about 30 seconds to complete, but what it does, those questions identify where you are, as in, are you a starter? Are you a mid level? Are you a this? And if you can identify the type of system you’re looking at, the first thing it’ll do is say, I’m using the right system for me and therefore I stand more chance of success.

I don’t, and you can, if you’re not, we’ll give you some suggestions for other systems. You can look, be looking at, we sit in the middle. We know exactly who we work and who we benefit with. So if we don’t, and we don’t help you, we’re not going to try and make you fit away, square peg fit around all because you’ll fail and you won’t talk nicely about us.

Check that quiz out, we give you some really good advice in there and it’ll help point you in the direction of where you need to be and on top of that, if anybody wants to check Popcorn out because they think they could help us, if you go onto our website, there’s plenty of book a demo here buttons and it’s no pressure, 30 minutes, we’ll show you how it can benefit you and yeah, it’s up to you, but.

What’s the website address? The website address is popcorncrm. co. uk. That’s popcorncrm. co. uk with a radio voice. I’ll include a link in the show notes as well. So something I’m asking everybody is for one marketing related book that you would recommend. I think you’ve touched on it already. . Okay. And I’ve come prepared ’cause you did warn me about it and I didn’t run, go from my bookcase over there to get it out.

I referenced it earlier. It’s this one here. Hopefully you can all see it. It’s called They Ask You Answer. It’s by, an author called Marcus Sheridan. It is absolutely amazing. Now, the reason I say it’s amazing. Is because it teaches you how to think about inbound sales with your marketing activity.

So we looked at this and just as a nutshell, and the reason it’s called they ask you answer is because if your customers are asking questions, answer them. Don’t hide it, be completely open and clear about it all. And it just goes through ways you can do that in a really clear, really transparent way. And just by doing that, we’ve transformed the way we engage with people.

As I say, we don’t try and hide anything. Everything is always out on display for us. you can get any information from us. We want you to know everything about us. That you can if you start implementing that we’ve seen such a change in our business is brilliant. It’s such a privilege. Sorry to spend a day with Marcus Sheridan doing a training course and it was fantastic.

absolutely fantastic. I’m still implementing the ideas from that day 12 months on. Yeah, no, I thoroughly enjoyed that book. I’ve read it a while ago, but it’s I would say it’s. responsible for actually kick kicking off the, the search engine optimization approach of having loads and loads of related content.

In that hub and spoke model. So you’ve got your pillar page. That’s you’re you’re trying to sell something. Let’s say you’re selling a widget. that’s fine. But then all the way around that is all of the content that you might ever get asked by a customer by a prospect that’s related to it.

And you’re just trying to Hoover in as many of those relevant eyeballs into your site as possible and educate them. And if you’re not doing it and your competitors are, that puts you in a very weak position. So excellent read. Excellent recommendation. Thank you. And so just to quickly reinforce on that point, if we go back to the 80 percent statistic, when people are asking all these questions, they’re in the research phase.

So if you’ve created the pages all around these questions, you’re armed with utter gold dust because you’re going, they’re going, Ah, I’ve got this problem with this. Can I help? it gives you that information. It’s just absolutely brilliant to do check it out. You can imagine as well that it builds a bit of a flywheel.

If you’ve got the right CRM and it’s implemented properly, if you’ve captured their information and you’re getting them back onto your website time and time again, they’re consuming the right content, they’re better, more valuable signals for your sales team to be following up on. So I think that’s an excellent point to close out on.

Simon, look, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed that conversation. I should have started counting the stats from the beginning, but I’m going to review this and pop a little stat up there. Four stats. is that four stats? This time? I think, it’s four. I don’t know. It’s Friday. I haven’t got a clue.

But no, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you so much for being a guest on this show. how can people find you online if they want to connect? So two ways is if you go to our website, which is. popcorncrm.co.uk. That’s Popcorncrm.co.uk or just if you go into LinkedIn, search for my name’s Simon Washbrook, I’m there, or Popcorn CRM.

You can find us. as I said, I’m sure you’ll put the links for that in, into this, into the not article, into the blog, into the show notes. I absolutely will. Thank you. Brilliant. Thanks a lot Simon. Great to see you. Thanks everyone. Cheers, David. Bye.